Curse

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kybos

Battery Necro's aren't for weak teams. My experience shows that battery necros just make missions and quests a lot faster.

Undead, your comments are your opinion. But you ask people not to flame your posts, so why flame this one?

NOT flaming the post, just hate to see necros being small time support when they have the possiblity to be so much more.... Its like Michael Jordan.... best b-ball player of all time.... he may be good enough to play minor league baseball but why do something shitty when you can do something so much better... my point is.... being a battery requires no skill..... lets run around being everyone energy supply.... like I said GOOD players with GOOD builds can manage their own energy.... battery necros are good for PEOPLE THAT CAN'T MANAGE THEIR OWN ENERGY!..... I like to standout, be a stong character with a strong build.... sorry but if you talk to people with a lot of time in the game they will say the same thing...."A good build requires some sort of energy management"..... not hey I never have any energy...ahh no big deal lets just grab a battery....

I'm not trying to offend anyone.... actually a nice guy... but rather i'm trying to encourage people to make a stonger build... god, my necro can solo uw,fow,desert...or can be like any of 5 other builds that I use..... NONE of which are a battery...I just find my character to be TOO GOOD to end up a battery... someone who helps other characters standout.... I prefer to excel... how many Super Bowls were given credit to the waterboys...

You don't want to be a waterboy do you.... grow a set, make a real build.... not trying to offend anyone, and maybe some people like this build... but if you experiment with some of the more OFFENSIVE builds out there I believe you'll be a lot more pleased!

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

I'll say this. I never failed at one mission after Riverside Providence, which is when I happened to switch to Battery. Can you say the same? I highly doubt it with the way it sounds like you play Necro. A team in PvE without a Battery Necro is a weaker team. I have logged over 1000 hours, all playing Necro. I've played through PvE using every Necro build under the sun. And I can tell you that there is no better Necro for a team on a tough mission in PvE than Battery. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.

The fact that you are even arguing with anyone on this tells us that you really don't understand the full power of Battery. You might think you do, but it sounds to me like you just find it boring, which is your opinion which noone cares about. But it is a very well known fact that Battery Necros are in MUCH higher demand than every other kind of Necro later in the game. And if you dont know this, then I dont believe youve beater the game. Every single group is looking for Battery. The last time I saw someone say LF MM Necro I think was back in maybe The Wilds or somewhere around there. MM's are great for farming and earlier in the game. Their useless later on. The enemies are too strong. They waste weak minions.

Battery is not just support. It is a heavily versatile build. You do a lot on different fronts to ensure team success. Monks always have energy and anyone else who needs it. You are dealing healthy damage when everone is full of energy. You are casting wells to make sure everyone is in good shape at all times. Using a Necro for stricly damage in PvE is what noobs try to do with them in the beginning of the game. Yes, it may be cooler or whatever, but you are stuck in that newb mentality that Necros are really scary looking, and should be dealing damage. They shouldn't be used for that later on because you have other classes already that are focused on that such as Warriors and Ele. A purely offensive Necro is just a waste of a member slot in a potentially good team. Necros are not best utilized when focusing on damage when there is other classes that are better at it no matter what buid you come up with.

You clearly dont personally like Battery, so your trying to make a weak point that they arent any good. All anyone needs to do is stop by any mission from the desert on and check and see what ever single group wants. I just go in there saying N/Mo20 w/+6BiP LFG and it's instantly 10 whispers of people wanting me. Highly doubt you get the same results with any other kind of Necro.

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus_Zero

I'll say this. I never failed at one mission after Riverside Providence, which is when I happened to switch to Battery. Can you say the same? I highly doubt it with the way it sounds like you play Necro. A team in PvE without a Battery Necro is a weaker team. I have logged over 1000 hours, all playing Necro. I've played through PvE using every Necro build under the sun. And I can tell you that there is no better Necro for a team on a tough mission in PvE than Battery. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.

The fact that you are even arguing with anyone on this tells us that you really don't understand the full power of Battery. You might think you do, but it sounds to me like you just find it boring, which is your opinion which noone cares about. But it is a very well known fact that Battery Necros are in MUCH higher demand than every other kind of Necro later in the game. And if you dont know this, then I dont believe youve beater the game. Every single group is looking for Battery. The last time I saw someone say LF MM Necro I think was back in maybe The Wilds or somewhere around there. MM's are great for farming and earlier in the game. Their useless later on. The enemies are too strong. They waste weak minions.

Battery is not just support. It is a heavily versatile build. You do a lot on different fronts to ensure team success. Monks always have energy and anyone else who needs it. You are dealing healthy damage when everone is full of energy. You are casting wells to make sure everyone is in good shape at all times. Using a Necro for stricly damage in PvE is what noobs try to do with them in the beginning of the game. Yes, it may be cooler or whatever, but you are stuck in that newb mentality that Necros are really scary looking, and should be dealing damage. They shouldn't be used for that later on because you have other classes already that are focused on that such as Warriors and Ele. A purely offensive Necro is just a waste of a member slot in a potentially good team. Necros are not best utilized when focusing on damage when there is other classes that are better at it no matter what buid you come up with.

You clearly dont personally like Battery, so your trying to make a weak point that they arent any good. All anyone needs to do is stop by any mission from the desert on and check and see what ever single group wants. I just go in there saying N/Mo20 w/+6BiP LFG and it's instantly 10 whispers of people wanting me. Highly doubt you get the same results with any other kind of Necro.

DID you read my post... I said that batteries are useful.... but only to teams that CAN'T manage their own energy and its true... With every character and every profession their are ways to manage your own energy... my point was if your on a team with all STRONG builds then everyone will have their own energy management and batteries arn't needed.... being a battery takes NO Skill.... and theres no argument with that.... my 6 year old brother-in-law could master that build....As far as me not understanding the build... I made it, tried it, then lauphed alot..... it really is a newb build... not only for the maker but for the people that need one....1 of the MOST IMPORTANT aspects of any build is ENERGY management.... and if you consider finding a battery to join the party then thats great for you.... but once again my point is people with GOOD BUILDS don't need batteries.... People with WEAK builds and can't manage their energy need batteries..... this may be controversal but its seems like i'm the only one with a good argument.... All you defend this build by is saying it makes the party stronger... my point is instead of 7 characters and a battery.... a team of 8 strong characters that can manage their own energy is STONGER.... and thats something you can't argue with... sorry but its true!

And as far as you saying its easy to get into parties.... yea your right, because the majority of the people that play this game have weak builds with no energy management aka NEWB PARTIES!

And I beat the game months ago... As a Necro/Mo..... Self-Battery Healer...ty

oh and your comment about necros dealing alot of dmg are a waste and they should help the team in other ways is particially true.... THATS WHAT CURSES are for.... cripple the enemy...make killing easy.... there are a lot of ways to help the team.... but some are obviously more helpful than others... and BiP is a waste....so many other MORE effective ways to help your team, they should be able to manage their own energy!

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus_Zero

I'll say this. I never failed at one mission after Riverside Providence, which is when I happened to switch to Battery. Can you say the same? I highly doubt it with the way it sounds like you play Necro. A team in PvE without a Battery Necro is a weaker team. I have logged over 1000 hours, all playing Necro. I've played through PvE using every Necro build under the sun. And I can tell you that there is no better Necro for a team on a tough mission in PvE than Battery. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.

The fact that you are even arguing with anyone on this tells us that you really don't understand the full power of Battery. You might think you do, but it sounds to me like you just find it boring, which is your opinion which noone cares about. But it is a very well known fact that Battery Necros are in MUCH higher demand than every other kind of Necro later in the game. And if you dont know this, then I dont believe youve beater the game. Every single group is looking for Battery. The last time I saw someone say LF MM Necro I think was back in maybe The Wilds or somewhere around there. MM's are great for farming and earlier in the game. Their useless later on. The enemies are too strong. They waste weak minions.

Battery is not just support. It is a heavily versatile build. You do a lot on different fronts to ensure team success. Monks always have energy and anyone else who needs it. You are dealing healthy damage when everone is full of energy. You are casting wells to make sure everyone is in good shape at all times. Using a Necro for stricly damage in PvE is what noobs try to do with them in the beginning of the game. Yes, it may be cooler or whatever, but you are stuck in that newb mentality that Necros are really scary looking, and should be dealing damage. They shouldn't be used for that later on because you have other classes already that are focused on that such as Warriors and Ele. A purely offensive Necro is just a waste of a member slot in a potentially good team. Necros are not best utilized when focusing on damage when there is other classes that are better at it no matter what buid you come up with.

You clearly dont personally like Battery, so your trying to make a weak point that they arent any good. All anyone needs to do is stop by any mission from the desert on and check and see what ever single group wants. I just go in there saying N/Mo20 w/+6BiP LFG and it's instantly 10 whispers of people wanting me. Highly doubt you get the same results with any other kind of Necro.

DID you read my post... I said that batteries are useful.... but only to teams that CAN'T manage their own energy and its true... With every character and every profession their are ways to manage your own energy... my point was if your on a team with all STRONG builds then everyone will have their own energy management and batteries arn't needed.... being a battery takes NO Skill.... and theres no argument with that.... my 6 year old brother-in-law could master that build....As far as me not understanding the build... I made it, tried it, then lauphed alot..... it really is a newb build... not only for the maker but for the people that need one....1 of the MOST IMPORTANT aspects of any build is ENERGY management.... and if you consider finding a battery to join the party then thats great for you.... but once again my point is people with GOOD BUILDS don't need batteries.... People with WEAK builds and can't manage their energy need batteries..... this may be controversal but its seems like i'm the only one with a good argument.... All you defend this build by is saying it makes the party stronger... my point is instead of 7 characters and a battery.... a team of 8 strong characters that can manage their own energy is STONGER.... and thats something you can't argue with... sorry but its true!

And as far as you saying its easy to get into parties.... yea your right, because the majority of the people that play this game have weak builds with no energy management aka NEWB PARTIES!

And I beat the game months ago... As a Necro/Mo..... Self-Battery Healer...ty

oh and your comment about necros dealing alot of dmg are a waste and they should help the team in other ways is particially true.... THATS WHAT CURSES are for.... cripple the enemy...make killing easy.... there are a lot of ways to help the team.... but some are obviously more helpful than others... and BiP is a waste....so many other MORE effective ways to help your team, they should be able to manage their own energy!

Kybos · Dec 30, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

NOT flaming the post, just hate to see necros being small time support when they have the possiblity to be so much more.... Its like Michael Jordan.... best b-ball player of all time.... he may be good enough to play minor league baseball but why do something shitty when you can do something so much better... my point is.... being a battery requires no skill..... lets run around being everyone energy supply.... like I said GOOD players with GOOD builds can manage their own energy.... battery necros are good for PEOPLE THAT CAN'T MANAGE THEIR OWN ENERGY!..... I like to standout, be a stong character with a strong build.... sorry but if you talk to people with a lot of time in the game they will say the same thing...."A good build requires some sort of energy management"..... not hey I never have any energy...ahh no big deal lets just grab a battery....

I'm not trying to offend anyone.... actually a nice guy... but rather i'm trying to encourage people to make a stonger build... god, my necro can solo uw,fow,desert...or can be like any of 5 other builds that I use..... NONE of which are a battery...I just find my character to be TOO GOOD to end up a battery... someone who helps other characters standout.... I prefer to excel... how many Super Bowls were given credit to the waterboys...

You don't want to be a waterboy do you.... grow a set, make a real build.... not trying to offend anyone, and maybe some people like this build... but if you experiment with some of the more OFFENSIVE builds out there I believe you'll be a lot more pleased!

Each person has their own role in a PvE or PvP build. If there are 3 E/Me's in a group and each wants to cast 3 meteor showers, then I would say that a battery necro would be more advantageous to a group then not having one. So what if FoC, SS, and probably a ton of other skills can do damage. If a group wants a battery thats what they want.

Consider the warrior. Some groups want tanks that can withstand a lot of hits. Other groups want warriors for damage support. Each class has its own facet within a group build.

Being diverse (support and damage) shows how good of a player you are.

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

"but only to teams that CAN'T manage their own energy and its true"

In good teams, you don't want a monk managing their energy. When they do, you die. They need energy support when you are getting bashed in by the toughest enemies in the game. Yeah you can always take a 3rd monk and not bring a Battery Necro. But then not only are you removing a slot for a pure damage dealer, but you arent getting the Battery Necros damage support either. You can probably still win, but it will take a bit longer for no reason.

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

So you are saying that a party of 8 with no battery that needs to spend less time casting skills, is better than a party of 8 where one spends 25% of their time making there the other 7 can cast spells all the time? You arent as experienced as you seem to think you are. And I dont mean by hours, I mean by learning to play is the most efficient PvE build that is possible. Having a pure damage Necro is not the way to go.

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

"THATS WHAT CURSES are for"

Im not denying curses are useful. My point is that you seem to think battery is only useful to noob teams which is just not true. You talk to the most experienced and best GW players around and not one of them will tell you battery is for noobs. Even the #10 ranked guild Treacherous Empire (whos record is like 150 and 5) has a battery necro in their guild.

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus_Zero

"but only to teams that CAN'T manage their own energy and its true"

In good teams, you don't want a monk managing their energy. When they do, you die. They need energy support when you are getting bashed in by the toughest enemies in the game. Yeah you can always take a 3rd monk and not bring a Battery Necro. But then not only are you removing a slot for a pure damage dealer, but you arent getting the Battery Necros damage support either. You can probably still win, but it will take a bit longer for no reason.

True healing monks are Mo/N and use offering of blood to self-battery

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus_Zero

So you are saying that a party of 8 with no battery that needs to spend less time casting skills, is better than a party of 8 where one spends 25% of their time making there the other 7 can cast spells all the time? You arent as experienced as you seem to think you are. And I dont mean by hours, I mean by learning to play is the most efficient PvE build that is possible. Having a pure damage Necro is not the way to go.

I'm not saying Energy Management is not to cast and wait for regen, their are skills for each profession that contribute to energy gain or regen

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

OoB is not as effective. Although in PvP it's a little different. Many monks in PvP use OoB because playing against real players, you can afford to have someone focus on support. But it can still work. Treacherous Empire has one and they are the #10 best guild in the world. They also have another Necro that pretty much just uses Life Siphon and a couple other skills. But because of the way they use it, its highly effective. You cant bash any build in this game. They all have their uses. And the bottom line is no matter the skill level of any group in PvE, Battery is extremely useful.

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

I'm not saying Energy Management is not to cast and wait for regen, their are skills for each profession that contribute to energy gain or regen

By why would you waste a skill slot on that for 7 different team memebers? That logic doesnt make sense to me when you have have someone who is a great damage dealer that can take care of it for EVERYONE by only spending at the most, 25% of their time. But I think its probably way below that.

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cygnus_Zero

"THATS WHAT CURSES are for"

Im not denying curses are useful. My point is that you seem to think battery is only useful to noob teams which is just not true. You talk to the most experienced and best GW players around and not one of them will tell you battery is for noobs. Even the #10 ranked guild Treacherous Empire (whos record is like 150 and 5) has a battery necro in their guild.

that is PvP which is a completely different aspect of the game, i have been talking about PvE which is what the original post is about... In alot of pvp guild team builds they use batteries because they max out other characters for dmg.... in PvE which is what we are talking about.... Teamwork is useful but the party members builds arn't made for the max strength possible... therefore each build should have their own energy management.... I added my opinion in this thread for one reason.... the OP said he was thinking about making this build and I was giving him my thoughts... I believe thats what this post was about.... someone wanted peoples OPINIONS on a build he was going to make.... if my post OFFENDED you too bad, everyone is entitled to their opinion.... post yourself saying how great this build is because you are entitled to that.... but this is turning into a flame war..... this is my last post in this thread..... someone asked for peoples opinions, he didn't say no negative opinions..... therefore I gave mine.... maybe he needed to see the negative aspects of a battery.... and if you don't mind.... post your build so I can see ALL THESE USEFUL spells besides BiP that you use.... I'm very interested to see this GODLY build!

Enigmatics · Dec 30, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Forgive me for skipping the posts that looked a bit dogged.

Quote:

BiP+Blood Renewal+Protective Spirit. around 100 hp

Just thought I'd like to point out, that Prot Bond/Spirit will not work on sacrificing health. Which is why N/Mo use Aura of the Lich: If 55 builds could sac and not lose more than 5 health, most N/Mo would be obsolete for farming.

And Undead, try not to be fanboyish about Necromancers. We all do it to our favorite builds, me included; would that you guide this topic in the right direction by posting helpful *skill choices*, not defending your main's honor.

As for BiP. My Forgemaster/Smite groups usually want BiP Necros. Monks who do not specialize in Spike Healing or, practically, any non-Mo/N, cannot manage their energy efficiently in the FoW/UW.

Current BiP build I use has Heal Area, which is a decent self-heal to follow BiP up with. If you're in more organised parties, try Mimicking Aura of the Lich and you'll be able to spam 4 BiPs for the health cost of 1.

Also, when using this skill, it usually isn't enough just to pack it and bring random damage spells. Parties already have nukes; they don't need your extra 80 damage from Shadow Strike. Things like Heal Party, Mend/Draw Conditions, Well of Blood, *any spell that uses up a corpse -Consume Corpse is great -for the Southern Shiverpeaks*, help greatly. I've only used a N/Mo, so I've only listed Monk skills. There are several overlooked skills that are not quite consistent with classes that have them that Batteries can bring.

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I was talking about PvE all along. But I brought up that Te uses a Battery as an example that you cant throw the word Battery around and convince people it's useless. That's so far from the truth.

I don't use the word godly and never referred to my build as such. But it's on page one though. It's a standard Battery build. Nothing original about it, but it's tried and true. It works very well on any team in any situation in PvE. I don't believe that in the perfect PvE group, 7 of the 8 members should waste a skill slot to manage energy when you can have 1 take care of it for everyone, and it doesnt even take that much time to do!

But if you are not a Battery Necro, you are automatically erasing 7 skills slots total for everyone else to manage their own energy. On top of that which is enough reason to bring a Battery Necro, you have 7 people that have to focus on something else, when all along it would have been easier on the whole team to have a Batter. When is the last time you saw anyone in a tough PvE mission looking for a MM or Curse Necro. They just arent going to help the team as a whole as much as a Battery. Thats not opinion.

Battery Necro's are in such high demand, not because noobs need them. Its because in PvE, it really is the best, most efficient way to use a Necro. If you wanted to deal damage, it would have been a wiser choice to use a Warrior or Ele. There is a good reason why BiP is one of the most popular skills in the game and is high regarded by pretty much all players of all skill levels. You are probably the 1st person Ive ever even heard talk about a Battery Necro in such a way.

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 30, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

"As for BiP. My Forgemaster/Smite groups usually want BiP Necros. Monks who do not specialize in Spike Healing or, practically, any non-Mo/N, cannot manage their energy efficiently in the FoW/UW. "

That kind of touches on the point I made earlier. When you are in a tough area, and you are asking every member to manage their own energy, the team is just not as effect as it would have been if you had a battery that can keep everyone in good shape with energy and it doesnt take much time to do. But undead, your asking each member to waste a skill slot for an energy management skill. It just doesnt make sense. You really need your monks healing all the time. Hit them with BiP every once in a while and you can survive the toughest areas in the game. Instead you are trying to be pure offensive which is just not the best thing to do. Its ok. You can do whatever you want. But the bottom line is Batterys are WAY more popular than any other Necro style for a darn good reason.

Once exception might be farming. SS and MM Necros are in a pretty good demand for things like IDS farming and whatnot. But I dont think the OP is concerned with that right now. He hasnt even made a Necro yet. So if you are going to steer him in any direction pretty much everyone but you would probably say Battery.

And it is fun to play for most people. Maybe you dont enjoy it because you want to be ALL offensive, but Battery is a nice mix of offense and support. When I am not BiPing or throwing down some wells, 75% of the time I spend spamming Dark Pact and Vampiric Gaze. So every 3 seconds or so, Im doing about 100 dmg which is very nice on top of 2 warriors and an Ele. Noone will complain about that. And I enjoy the support end as well. You are everyones best friend when they see those wells or +6 energy regen on top of what they already have by default.

Undead Preacher · Dec 30, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

-Cygnus Zero
Thats alot better support on your argument, nicely put

-Mostly I dislike build because when I tried it I felt like people didn't appreciate it

- As far as it being useful, I've always agreed with that.... Nukers are deadly with constant energy as well monks who drain themselves without OoB....

-However... I still believe necros can play the part of High Dmg dealers.... I have a couple Builds that drop foes faster than any other character....

-Also... if you like farming UW and like having a build thats high in demand, Try a Echo SS/SV or 55hp i-Necro..... then you can play a more major role.. just my opinion

Cygnus_Zero · Dec 31, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I dont disagree that Necro's can be lethal damage dealers. SS and MM Necros are great. I'm not denying that. But the point of the topic is this guy wants to know the best way to go. I'm just trying to prove a point that Battery Necros arent just for noob teams. You can have the best 7 players on earth and they will be happy with a talented Battery Necro. I would say that it isnt as difficult as some other builds, but its also very easy to not be that great at Battery.

A good example would be Hell's Precipice. There is those big rock enemies that when you destroy them, they spawn 2 other enemies in that spot. Well as soon as we destroy the big rock enemy, I would immediately put a well in that spot. This alone made getting through this mission very easy.

(spoilers)
And then there is the Undead Lich. Which anyone will tell you if you dont know already is not the easiest boss in the world. He does that full heal thing when his power gets low. And then the lava is constantly spawning enemies as well. Well I realized that casting wells made no sense in this situation. And the damage of 100 that I was able to do every 3 seconds wasnt really enough to make a dent in that guy. So I decided to cast BiP on every member of the team. And that put us over the top very easily. We wiped him out in about 5 seconds when I did that. So there is plenty of strategy involved. And it was very enjoyable. Everyone on the team knew I was the one that put us over the top and I got the big pat on the back. It felt great. I even had a couple people who I could tell were great at what they did tell me I was the best Necro they ever played with. Not that I really care about that kind of thing, but it makes the point that Battery Necros have a place in any group in this game. And thats why I was telling the OP that it is something that you really should learn to get good at.

Demonicevl · Dec 31, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Have you ever thought that even with OoB that monks can STILL run out of energy? If there is only 1 heal monk or even 2 they will be busy CONSTANTLY casting healing spells all around and Word of Healing at 5energy per cost may not seem like much, but if you are spamming it to a team of 8 and trying to keep them alive at all costs, your energy is going to be quite low. Just thought i would mention that.

Demonicevl · Dec 31, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Have you ever thought that even with OoB that monks can STILL run out of energy? If there is only 1 heal monk or even 2 they will be busy CONSTANTLY casting healing spells all around and Word of Healing at 5energy per cost may not seem like much, but if you are spamming it to a team of 8 and trying to keep them alive at all costs, your energy is going to be quite low. Just thought i would mention that.